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Post by Queen Shadowrama on Mar 4, 2009 22:24:57 GMT -3
As someone who's followed SN on and off since I discovered MST, I gotta know what the hell is up with the commenters over there. Apparently there was some big porn-y explosion over there in the Carnival of Souls thread (I missed it, and the offending comments have now been removed), but seriously, what the hell? I mean, it's probably only one or two people responsible for that particular mess, but it seems like the site really has gone to crap anyway since the implementation of comments. So while there are obvious trolls on the site, a lot of the regular commenters seem so...mean. I mean, are these people all rejects from Forrestcrow and this is the only place they can comment or what? WTF is wrong with some MSTies? No seriously. Tell me. I'm so confused.  |
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Post by Big Stoopid on Mar 5, 2009 0:40:35 GMT -3
You know what a large part of it is ?
The interwebs is a place where every show / recording artist / and what-have-you attracts self-appointed critics. More & more, everyone's spoutin' off their "considered opinions". This is just plain growing daily.
Add to that something I realized about MST, or rather, a large segment of MSTies :
They see the show as something that mocks lameness, skewers ineptness . . you know. ( I myself can enjoy that element, or even often cringe slightly at the mockery. My favorite element is the ever-shifting perspectives of the comments, and the stream-of-realities they impose on the films . . it just darn tickles every wrinkle in the brain ! )
But for a certain breed of blogged-out blowhards, our fave show has ignited their latent "disgust" with the rampant media that's been rising like a tide of sewage for awhile now.
To put it simpler, perhaps . . . the way MST sprays all accumulated culture at all the rest of it, combined with the web giving everyone a soapbox . . . . well some folks were primed for going over the edge.
Now let's try and determine just where that edge is !!
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Post by Robyn on Mar 5, 2009 1:18:00 GMT -3
Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown Fandom.
Okay, seriously - yeah I saw some of the comments before they were deleted. Not cool.
I dunno, I think it's only recently that SN has started going to hell. In the thread about RiffTrax doing Jaws, people finally stopped being passive-aggressive and got just plain aggressive. I'm kind amazed Jaws was the one to do it. I mean even during the epic bitching about RiffTrax doing Alien and Dark Knight, things were kept civil.*
*...I can't believe I just said that.
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Post by OxfordProle on Mar 5, 2009 11:45:49 GMT -3
The recent mean-spirited (or just plain perverse) messages over at SN reminds me of old law school and grad school boards I used to visit: the majority of posters were intelligent, mature, thoughtful individuals looking for advice or offering thoughts and information on a somewhat esoteric topic. And then there were a handful of attention-starved knobheads who pretty much made it their mission to offend and/or disgust as many people as possible.
It's really sad to see SN polluted by the same kind of stuff. I've always liked the site, even back in the ultra-lean days when it pretty much only offered the 'This Day In MSTory' posts, an occasional news bit about the BBI alums, and fairly frequent (and somewhat morbid) updates on the deaths of actors in MSTed films. Chris and Brian do an absolutely amazing job compiling and disseminating information and always have. I LOVED the site when they updated it a couple of years ago to reflect the growing interest in the show and all of its subsequent spin-off projects - heck, it meant that MST was living on, and its alums thriving! And it was great to see the thoughts and ideas of other MSTies in the discussion threads about each weekly episode guide or the Weekend Discussion Thread.
I still visit SN everyday, I occasionally post, I still enjoy it (for the most part). And I really, really hate that this longstanding, carefully-made labor-of-love is being crapped on by a few bad apples who think their pointlessly negative diatribes or pathetic attempts to be filthy are worth reading. Still, as BS pointed out, it's kind of the nature of the beast. MSTies are generally smart, thoughtful people, but some are simply fire-starters and the anonymity of the internet allows them to be full-on pyromaniacs.
Anyway, let's hope the site prevails. I'd really hate to see it go down in flames because 2% of its posters are trolls.
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Post by oddstocks on Mar 5, 2009 12:54:16 GMT -3
Hmm. I'm glad I didn't see the Carnival of Souls comments. Unfortunately I did see the disrespectful and inappropriate comments concerning Bridget in the Bacon Contrition post before they were removed. No whiny arguing about whether such & such show/episodes suck or not has ever made me as disgusted as those comments did. Had to take a break from that site for a while.
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Post by Queen Shadowrama on Mar 5, 2009 13:58:44 GMT -3
It's really sad to see SN polluted by the same kind of stuff. I've always liked the site, even back in the ultra-lean days when it pretty much only offered the 'This Day In MSTory' posts, an occasional news bit about the BBI alums, and fairly frequent (and somewhat morbid) updates on the deaths of actors in MSTed films. Chris and Brian do an absolutely amazing job compiling and disseminating information and always have. I LOVED the site when they updated it a couple of years ago to reflect the growing interest in the show and all of its subsequent spin-off projects - heck, it meant that MST was living on, and its alums thriving! And it was great to see the thoughts and ideas of other MSTies in the discussion threads about each weekly episode guide or the Weekend Discussion Thread. This. Chris and Brian are absolutely the biggest, baddest fans ever and they've been with the fandom through thick and thin. I love those guys. Which is why it pisses me off to see all their hard work and dedication turn to crap because of some anonymous jerkwads who show no sign of going away. I dread Rifftrax updates on the site now, because it seems to always turn into some sort of hate-fest. It's just a bummer that a couple bad apples are able to induce such chaos. But I can deal with criticizing Rifftrax. The detractors actually make good points sometimes. But it's the personal attacks on the Brains themselves that make it difficult to turn the other cheek. I've since picked up on some of the things that were said about Bridget...I dare those guys to say that same stuff to Mike's face. Oh yeah, they won't because a fundamental trait of nerds is that they're bloody cowards (especially on the internet). Mike seems like a kind and gentle man, but I would not fault him one bit for beating the pulp outta those guys...  I don't have an issue with people saying Bridget is hot/attractive or whatever (I mean she is, and we have certainly been known to make our own commentary about the hotness of other Brains  ), but when it gets perverted into extremely demeaning commentary it becomes totally uncool. Love and respect, MSTies. |
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Post by oddstocks on Mar 5, 2009 15:46:29 GMT -3
The thing that scares me the most about the demeaning comments is that if someone really has that attitude - where they don't have respect for anyone or anything - and they feel comfortable verbalizing their inappropriate thoughts in a public forum (anonymous or not)... how soon before that comfort shifts from words into behavior? Are these guys just jerks, or are they budding criminals?
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Post by crowfan on Mar 5, 2009 17:31:05 GMT -3
I remember the old sci fi boards being really rude and obnoxious as well. I lurked, but never posted there. The posts weren't even really about MST, or if they were they were really negative or whatever.
The other thing about the internet is that you do have anonymity to see negative things. that tends to encourage some people. I feel sad that Satellite News is now getting these trolls. I've also noticed that some MSTies(not all by any means) are kind of negative about Cinematic Titanic too.
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Post by Queen Shadowrama on Mar 5, 2009 18:35:11 GMT -3
There's been a lot of negativity surrounding both projects, and considering we had a massive MST drought for like, years, you'd think they'd be a little more grateful. I'm not saying they have to love everything, but why be so mean about it when prior to this you didn't have crap? I wonder if part of this stems from some of the "old" fans feeling left behind? I would not consider myself a new fan by any means (I actually watched the show when it was still new on Sci-fi), but I am younger than a lot of the "old school" Comedy Central MSTies. Someone on SN was complaining that Rifftrax caters to the 20-somethings and that somehow contributes to it being crappy. I find that absolutely absurd, as all 20 year olds are not rampantly stupid any more than all old people are senile and grumpy. But I've always gotten this hint of bitterness from angry MSTies and I've always wondered if it's because things are changing. The show has been off the air for years, and there are no new controversies stemming from the show. I mean, nobody cares about Joel vs. Mike, people like Bill, and very few people still give a crap if you were one of the original fans from the KTMA era. No controversies to endlessly discuss, nothing. Maybe they're still clinging to their memories of "the good old days" and can't ever be flexible. Or perhaps the technology is leaving them behind (hence the particular frustration with Rifftrax) and either out of genuine inability or sheer stubbornness they can't adjust . So rather than just try and go with the flow, they gotta have a tantrum about it and let everyone know that they're being "abandoned" (in the most ham-fisted way possible). Ah well. There's no way I can get in someone else's head. Maybe I should apply for a grant and do a full on scientific study as to why people are dickweeds on the internet.  |
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Katana
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Post by Katana on Mar 5, 2009 19:03:14 GMT -3
Maybe I should apply for a grant and do a full on scientific study as to why people are dickweeds on the internet. If you promise to keep "dickweeds" in the title, or at least the purpose/hypothesis, then I'll work on getting that grant for ya. So as it turns out, because I had tech club, I missed the comment debacle with the Carnival of Souls article and all that jazz. I left a comment because I've actually seen CoS, though I did fall asleep during it. In the end, I think this best describes the people who have to ruin it for the rest of us. Seriously people - I'm seventeen years old, and I'm telling you to get over yourselves. Do I remember the show from its hayday? Not very well, but there's some memories there. But I've been involved in long series before, and though it hurts for the end to come, you soon get over it. God, MSTies are so lucky! Not only do they have their roots to look back on, but the future too! People just can't seem to appreciate what they have, and it bothers me. C'mon guys! Robyn: Oh Kat *hugs* I've been on the internets too long, nothing shocks me anymore XD
Kat: Oh psssh
Kat: I'm not shocked, just filled with lots of sarcasm and rageBut y'know what? For all the bad guys, there's fifty times more awesome people. You folks, first off, but then there were the anonymous strangers I met at the CT show who I hit it off with. Young or old, it didn't make a difference, just that we were geeking out and having a good time being amongst people who loved the genre as well. Then there are the times I post at the LJ community - about my hat, or chicky Krankor, or my cosplay, or just icons - and the response is amazing. So don't let the bad guys bog you down. But certainly call 'em dickweeds, I won't stop ya. XD |
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Post by crowfan on Mar 5, 2009 20:04:37 GMT -3
That's true, but it always seems that the small minority try to ruin it for everyone else. I was fortunate enough to have seen most of the shows, having Comedy Central and Sci Fi(since I don't live in MN, I don't get KTMA so haven't seen those episodes),but I liked all the cast. I never understood the whole Joel vs. Mike, since they were both so different, that you have to take them as individuals. The only character that I never really got into was Bobo, but that was just me, and I certainly didn't hate the character or anything like that.
That being said, if you want to call them dickweeds, I won't stop you either.
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Post by Big Stoopid on Mar 5, 2009 21:28:47 GMT -3
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Post by Big Stoopid on Mar 5, 2009 21:32:30 GMT -3
or even the kind of negative-nellys that made up 20% of ForrestCrow ! Well, I guess I meant "that make up 20% of ForrestCrow", but I couldn't help stating it from my perspective of "endured for 2 years, up till a year ago". Hey !! . . . . group hug ! |
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Post by oddstocks on Mar 5, 2009 21:46:51 GMT -3
I never understood the whole Joel vs. Mike, since they were both so different, that you have to take them as individuals. I never understood that either. For that matter, I don't understand why some people feel they have to argue with each other so passionately - to the point of being insulting - about which episode or spin-off is better than another. I mean, how can you argue against different sensibilities? Each episode had different source material. Each season/project has different writers, with different backgrounds which mesh in different ways with each movie. They write over 500 jokes per show. Whether or not you get a particular joke can depend on things like your age, gender, geographic location, TV viewing habits, family, friends, religion (or lack thereof), life experience, etc. Clearly, every viewer is going to have a different viewing experience than every other viewer, and that experience is going to vary from show to show - minute to minute. That's one of the reasons I like these projects so much - you never know exactly what to expect, and when an obscure riff comes out of left field and makes you laugh 'til your sides hurt it can totally tip that particular episode/project/host in your favor. Likewise, a joke that offends you can turn you off of the whole thing just as quickly. So much of the experience depends on your own background. So why argue? At times I get the impression that some people are mean in their comments out of a need to be right at all costs - they want to be the expert: the one who tells everybody what to like and what not to like, and they want to be agreed with. The problem is, there is no definitive 'right'. There are too many variables. And most people don't like being told what they should/shouldn't like/think/do. It's too bad some people can't just accept that we're all different and try to connect on the things we do have in common, rather than focusing on differences in opinion. |
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Post by Big Stoopid on Mar 5, 2009 23:33:56 GMT -3
At times I get the impression that some people are mean in their comments out of a need to be right at all costs - they want to be the expert: the one who tells everybody what to like and what not to like, and they want to be agreed with. The problem is, there is no definitive 'right'. There are too many variables. And most people don't like being told what they should/shouldn't like/think/do. . Amen oddy ! |
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Creepy Girl
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Post by Creepy Girl on Mar 6, 2009 1:09:04 GMT -3
Gah, I'm sorry I wasn't around to take part in this discussion. It's okay though, you lovely people have said anything and everything that I would have. The majority of MSTies I've met online or in real life have been wonderful people. It's just sad that there are those few who are so off-base that they feel the need to come off as being so obnoxious and mean-spirited.
Makes me appreciate you guys more than I already did. :3
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Post by crowfan on Mar 6, 2009 21:39:05 GMT -3
And sadly, there are people in this world who aren't happy unless they are either making other people unhappy, or unless they have something to complain about.
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), but when it gets perverted into extremely demeaning commentary it becomes totally uncool. Love and respect, MSTies. 
